Fw: Ranging and Pioneer

----- Original Message -----
From: "Researcher" <notmy@email.com>
Newsgroups: sci.physics.research,sci.astro.research
Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 1:38 PM
Subject: Re: Ranging and Pioneer

> Very surprising.
>
> When I read about Quantum theory and GR and possibility of marrying both
it
> is clamed that QT is meant for less than
> millimetric space-zone and fails in large space.
>
> Here you seem to happily apply it to star distances.
>
> What is this redshift and allied conclusions
>
> The fallacy will show up if someone tries to convince me.
>
> Be sure, I ask fundamental and blunt questions
>
> Researcher
>
> "Oh No" <NotI@charlesfrancis.wanadoo.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:VCmrVfC$VY3EFwxV@charlesfrancis.wanadoo.co.uk...
> > Thus spake Igor Khavkine <igor.kh@gmail.com>
> > >Oh No wrote:
> >
> > >>
> > >> What is measured is a shift in the wavefunction corresponding to an
> > >> eigenstate of acceleration. For a general motion in radial
coordinates
> a
> > >> Newtonian acceleration toward the origin is given by -r^dotdot + r
> w^2,
> > >> where r is radial distance and w is angular velocity. In the case of
> > >> Pioneer the motion is principally radial and the first term
dominates;
> > >> the result is an illusory radial acceleration. For a star in orbit
the
> > >> motion is approximately circular, so the second term dominates. The
> > >> actual calculation is a little more complicated, but the net result
for
> > >> a star in orbit is an apparent increase in orbital velocity, or
rather
> a
> > >> shift in the wave function equivalent to such an increase.
> > >
> > >Am I understanding correctly that you are saying the both the shapes of
> > >galaxy rotation curves and the Pioneer blue shift are aspects of a
> > >quantum phenomenon?
> >
> > Yes.
> >
> > >Several questions beg in this case.
> > >
> > >1. Which objects are you treating classically and which quantum
> > >mechanically?
> >
> > I treat the emission of a photon from a distant object and its detection
> > on Earth quantum mechanically. The distant object is a conglomeration of
> > quantum particles.
> > >
> > >2. Can you rephrase all your references to "wave functions" in terms of
> > >the language of an abstract Hilbert space of states and operators
> > >observables?
> >
> > Yes. In fact that is where I come in. I find that it is necessary to use
> > coordinates which are conformally flat in the time-radial plane in order
> > to do this, so that quantum mechanics is effectively formulated on a
> > Penrose diagram in the time-radial plane.
> > >
> > >3. If you are proposing a quantum treatment of macroscopic objects like
> > >stars or the Pioneer space craft, can you demonstrate with a
> > >back-of-an-envelope estimate that said quantum effects would be
> > >observable?
> >
> > The quantum effects are observable when the accuracy of measurement of
> > position is less than the effective wavelength of the Doppler signal.
> > For Mars we have measurement accurate to about 10m, so the shift should
> > be present in optical frequencies in measurement of Mars, but at an
> > amplitude two orders of magnitude lower than can be detected by HIRES,
> > the high resolution echelle spectrometer in operation on the Keck
> > Telescope. For Pioneer the effective Doppler frequency is 1MHz,
> > equivalent to a wavelength of 300m. The effect is predicted to appear
> > when the accuracy of radar determinations of the position of Pioneer is
> > worse than 300m, which is basically when radar becomes unusable,
> > somewhere approaching the distance of Saturn. Potentially this can be
> > tested from the original Pioneer tapes, because cycle slip is a
> > prediction of the model (associated with collapse of the wave function).
> > If we downsample the signal to 10Hz, say, the effect should become
> > invisible. Currently cycle slip is treated as a "blunder point" and
> > eliminated from the data for analysis. I do not know if there are other
> > errors causing cycle slip which would make this test impossible.
> >
> > >
> > >Answers that are short and to the point would be best.
> >
> > I hope these are short enough. I suspect they beg further questions, and
> > I look forward to answering them.
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > --
> > Charles Francis
> > substitute charles for NotI to email
> >
>
>